[rabbitmq-discuss] Having some issues with RabbitMQ

Matthew Sackman matthew at rabbitmq.com
Sun Jul 18 00:14:50 BST 2010

Hi Christian,

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 02:54:11PM -0700, Christian Legnitto wrote:
> http://bit.ly/9P3IEX

I replied on your blog with (mostly) the following, but it's easier to
keep the discussion on the mailing list.

The new persister branch is regularly merged into from the current
default branch. Whilst it is correct to say it is currently based off
the 1.8 release, that’s only true in the sense of the above. The new
persister stores messages in a completely different format from the old,
and there is currently no tool to allow upgrading from a released
version of Rabbit to the new persister without losing persistent

The issue you ran into when going 1.7 to 1.8 is subtly different. Whilst
both use the old persister, both the on-disk format of the messages when
they are written to disk, and a database schema changed, again,
resulting in no state-maintaining upgrade path. To date we have never
produced a tool which can do upgrades maintaining state when database
schema or on-disk formats have changed.

You talk about users creating queues. I think that what you want is for
all users to use queues which have server-generated names, thus you
guarantee they are private, and you want to declare them “exclusive”,
which means that when the connection that created the queue disappears,
the queue itself (and any bindings to the queue) also automatically get

I quote this text from

“Some AMQP operations can create resources with server-generated names.
Every user has configure, write and read permissions for such resources.
However, the names are strong and not discoverable as part of the
protocol, only through management functionality. Therefore these
resources are in effect private to the user unless they choose to
dilvuge their names to other users.”

Thus I think that if you force users to create server-named queues, you
don’t need to grant any write privileges to your public user. It’ll need
read access to the exchange to create the binding, and it should
automatically have write access to create the binding to the private
queues. If this doesn’t work please let us know.

The 1.8 semantic changes concern what happens when you *re*declare a
queue. Previously, if the queue already existed and you redeclare it,
but with different attributes, it would still come back with an OK
result. This is misleading because it could lead the user to think that
a queue had been created with the specified attributes when in fact it
has not. Thus now, you must ensure you redeclare with the same
attributes as created the queue otherwise the redeclaration will fail
and close the channel. Full details can be found in the lower half of

I am very curious about you managing to get the new persister to crash.
Could you provide the rabbit logs (or the end of the logs) which should
show some sort of stack trace? The new persister just *should not*

One thing that might be happening is that Rabbit is raising flow
control, to request that publishers stop sending further messages to
Rabbit – even with the new persister this can happen sometimes to allow
disks to catch up, but this tends to only be necessary at high data
rates. The client must respond with a flow_ok message to the broker to
confirm it understands the flow control, and it must then not send any
further messages – this is usually handled by the AMQP client library as
it just makes any subsequent publishes block – until it receives a
further flow control message from the broker, informing it it can
resume. Now I notice you’re using a python client, and they have
historically not supported flow control, which can lead to Rabbit
forcibly disconnecting clients that do not respond appropriately to the
flow control messages. This may crash a badly written client, but it
should not crash the broker itself.

You have a very interesting use case, and there is absolutely nothing
about it that shouldn’t work perfectly well with RabbitMQ.

Best wishes,


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